(no subject)
Jun. 24th, 2008 11:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rynneThere is SO MUCH SMOKE in the air right now. My mom said there was something like 800 (?!?!) fires in California, and some of the smoke is drifting over here. The sun was totally red today. I hope all of you who live in California are all right.
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
shinyopals, I got Ruby in the Smoke from Netflix today! I'm totally watching it tomorrow, and hurrah. I love the book so much, and I'm definitely interested in seeing Billie Piper in something else. And, sort of speaking of...
We're getting closer to the S4 finale, and there was something I was thinking of today. Bit of spoilers for Turn Left, but nothing very big.
Not in any particular order.
1. They make each other better people. The Doctor woke Rose up to the wonders the universe can offer, but he also woke up her strong sense of responsibility. He showed her a different way of living her life, one where she always does her best and never gives in, never compromises herself, and she sticks to that. And Rose helps keep the Doctor to that path as well--there's "What about you, Doctor? What the hell are you changing into?" in Dalek, and there's the Marbella conversation in Parting of the Ways, where Rose refuses to consider just leaving even when the Doctor brings it up, telling him he'd never do that. (I don't think he was seriously considering leaving, but she still let him know that she wasn't going to countenance running away.) She makes him be honest with her in School Reunion, and I think it was a combination of her distress and Sarah Jane's desire for a goodbye that helped prompt the goodbye in Doomsday, and her distress that made him talk about her to Donna and Martha, and Martha to Donna. He understands and does domestic so much better. They really learned and grew by being together.
2. They're equals. One of my favorite Rose scenes is in School Reunion, where she decisively tells Sarah Jane that she's not his "assistant". Even Romana, a Time Lady who got a Triple First at the Academy (as opposed to the Doctor, who got a 51% on his second try), had no trouble calling herself his assistant, or to hearing the Doctor call her that. But Rose has always, always assumed herself his equal, and has acted the part, really being a true partner to him. She doesn't have his breadth of factual knowledge, but she makes up for that with empathy, and understanding people. She also has an amazing memory that can call to mind tiny details that help solve the mystery, like in The Idiot's Lantern. Frankly it was her saving the day as often as it was the Doctor, and I love that.
3. They complement each other. Other people have said that he's the head and she's the heart, and I agree. They're both very competent with their set of skills, and those skills complement so nicely. She has a great memory and asks good questions, which spark some bit of his knowledge that they can then use. He zeroes in on the facts of the situation while she connects with the people, making an extremely effective team. As well, they're both courageous, quick-witted, intelligent, communicative, and tactile, which smooths out and enhances their already complementary strengths. They can even switch to the other's perspective--normally the Doctor looks at the big picture while Rose sees the details, but when the Doctor looks at the details, like in World War III, Rose effortlessly steps up to look at the big picture in his stead. They have their roles, but they're not bound to them, and they can always see the other side.
4. They love being together. They just love it! It's so wonderful to see how often they smile and laugh with each other, how well they play off each other--they have such energy, even in their quiet moments. They try to go to concerts, the Olympics, and have no problem calling them "dates". They joke with each other, and flirt, and feel free to act like themselves, even if they're acting like total dorks. They're not really nervous around each other, or constrained (except in a few moments, like the adorable shyness at the end of The Christmas Invasion). They love being together, and aren't afraid to express that.
5. They accept each other for who they are. There were a few bumps in the beginning, when they were still getting to know each other, but as they got to know each other better, they accepted each other more. The Doctor accepted Rose's father issues, even when they were clearly driving him crazy in Rise of the Cybermen, and he accepted Rose's ties to her home--Mickey, Jackie, everything else. Rose accepted he was alien, and that he can often be a dork, and rude. She accepted that sometimes he had to make choices that she didn't like, and she accepted his commitment/abandonment issues. They just accept each other, and love each other wholly.
6. They respect each other. Rose respects him for the way he lives his life, how he can be uncompromising, unwilling to give in, getting involved in horrible situations, but still being able to find joy in life. The Doctor respects Rose for the skills she has that he doesn't--"Rose would know"--for her empathy--"People are dying and Rose would care"--for her courage and intelligence and everything else. For the most part, he respects her right to make decisions about her own life, even when they put her in danger--the only exception is when Daleks are involved, but that's understandable, given the Time War. Otherwise--in The Long Game, after they get to Floor 500 he encourages her to go back, but accepts her decision when she refuses. In Age of Steel, he's clearly worried but still lets her go off with Pete to find alt!Jackie. He respects her ability to take care of herself, and I love that so much.
7. They believe in each other. The Doctor even says it explicitly, in what is one of my favorite speeches: "I've seen fake gods and bad gods and demi gods and would-be gods--out of all that--out of that whole pantheon--if I believe in one thing...just one thing...I believe in her." Out of all the available options, this 900-year-old Time Lord believes most in a 19/20-year-old human girl, and that's so brilliant. And she believes in him just as much--yeah, in his ability to save the world/universe/etc., but also in his ability to be a good person.
8. Rose is never actually in awe of the Doctor. She is well aware of how important he is in the scheme of things, that he saves people and worlds and whatever, but she knows him as a person so much better than as The Last Of The Time Lords, or the Lonely God. In Rose, she tells him that he'd be dead if it wasn't for her, and he agrees that she's right. He got the coordinates wrong for two of their earliest trips, Cardiff instead of Naples and coming home a year late, and has gotten it wrong multiple times since. She assumes herself his equal, challenges him to be a good person, and when she describes him to people, she doesn't say "fire and ice and rage" or Martha's story in Last of the Time Lords--she tells Jack, "When he's stressed, he likes to insult species. Cuts himself shaving, does half an hour in life forms he's cleverer than..." When she talks to Donna in Turn Left, she does say that he's a wonderful man who stopped it all from happening, but that's more factual than "he's just everything to me and he doesn't even look at me, but I don't care...'cause I love him to bits." And when Rose actually describes him, she talks about a tall man in a suit with some really great hair. It's simple, but it's also very sincerely him. She tells him when he's being rude and warns him with a look when he's got his fingers in someone else's marmalade, and that's the person she knows best, not the Oncoming Storm.
9. She wanted forever with him. For his sake, I am so happy about that. I've talked about this before, but I really think the Doctor needs someone who wants to stay with him, and I love that Rose was that person (and, hopefully, still is). I'm making my way through Classic Who, and I haven't seen that many companion departures, but those I have seen make it clear that he hurts when they leave. School Reunion makes it even more clear. I will never blame any of the companions who have chosen to leave him, for whatever reason, but I hurt for my Doctor, who always seems to come up second best. I love that Rose wanted him first and foremost, that she made it clear that "stuck with you, that's not so bad", and that she wanted to stay with him forever. I love that he had someone choose him, out of all the other choices she could have made.
10. He was often very focused on her, and payed a lot of attention to her. He gets quite the tunnel vision when she's in danger, like in Bad Wolf and The Idiot's Lantern, but as I watch more Classic Who, what strikes me the most is the regeneration. I have never seen him so positively focused on anyone during any other regeneration sequence--or, for that matter, any other companion so focused on him. In Four's debut, Robot, Sarah Jane had no problem going off to do her own thing, and Four had no problem letting her, doing his own thing as well. In Five's debut, Castrovalva, Nyssa, Tegan, and Adric do demonstrate worry, but not to the degree that Rose does (though admittedly they haven't known him as long), while he's having memory problems, calling them by names of previous companions or asking for people who are gone, and wandering around. Contrast that to the 2005 Children in Need special, where he pretty desperately wants her to be all right with his change, and is defensive when she's not. Then there's The Christmas Invasion, where he wakes up--too early--from a coma just because she asks him to help her. Surrounded by Jackie, Mickey, and Rose, it's only Rose he talks to when trying to get his information out. On the Sycorax ship, he prioritizes flirting with her, and convincing her it's still him, over talking to the Sycorax. And she worries over him even when Mickey's trying to distract her, and sits at his bedside, even mopping his forehead. She wants to take care of him, even when she doesn't understand the whole regeneration thing. As well, that she took it so badly is a measure of how much she loved him, when she felt like he abandoned her.
11. They love touching each other. Holding hands, hugging, standing so close that they practically eliminate personal space--they're just so comfortable with each other's bodies. It's wonderful to just watch them gravitate towards each other.
There are actually probably more, but it's getting late and I'm tired, so I'll stop now. :p Feel free to share your own reasons.
shinyopals, I got Ruby in the Smoke from Netflix today! I'm totally watching it tomorrow, and hurrah. I love the book so much, and I'm definitely interested in seeing Billie Piper in something else. And, sort of speaking of...We're getting closer to the S4 finale, and there was something I was thinking of today. Bit of spoilers for Turn Left, but nothing very big.
Not in any particular order.
1. They make each other better people. The Doctor woke Rose up to the wonders the universe can offer, but he also woke up her strong sense of responsibility. He showed her a different way of living her life, one where she always does her best and never gives in, never compromises herself, and she sticks to that. And Rose helps keep the Doctor to that path as well--there's "What about you, Doctor? What the hell are you changing into?" in Dalek, and there's the Marbella conversation in Parting of the Ways, where Rose refuses to consider just leaving even when the Doctor brings it up, telling him he'd never do that. (I don't think he was seriously considering leaving, but she still let him know that she wasn't going to countenance running away.) She makes him be honest with her in School Reunion, and I think it was a combination of her distress and Sarah Jane's desire for a goodbye that helped prompt the goodbye in Doomsday, and her distress that made him talk about her to Donna and Martha, and Martha to Donna. He understands and does domestic so much better. They really learned and grew by being together.
2. They're equals. One of my favorite Rose scenes is in School Reunion, where she decisively tells Sarah Jane that she's not his "assistant". Even Romana, a Time Lady who got a Triple First at the Academy (as opposed to the Doctor, who got a 51% on his second try), had no trouble calling herself his assistant, or to hearing the Doctor call her that. But Rose has always, always assumed herself his equal, and has acted the part, really being a true partner to him. She doesn't have his breadth of factual knowledge, but she makes up for that with empathy, and understanding people. She also has an amazing memory that can call to mind tiny details that help solve the mystery, like in The Idiot's Lantern. Frankly it was her saving the day as often as it was the Doctor, and I love that.
3. They complement each other. Other people have said that he's the head and she's the heart, and I agree. They're both very competent with their set of skills, and those skills complement so nicely. She has a great memory and asks good questions, which spark some bit of his knowledge that they can then use. He zeroes in on the facts of the situation while she connects with the people, making an extremely effective team. As well, they're both courageous, quick-witted, intelligent, communicative, and tactile, which smooths out and enhances their already complementary strengths. They can even switch to the other's perspective--normally the Doctor looks at the big picture while Rose sees the details, but when the Doctor looks at the details, like in World War III, Rose effortlessly steps up to look at the big picture in his stead. They have their roles, but they're not bound to them, and they can always see the other side.
4. They love being together. They just love it! It's so wonderful to see how often they smile and laugh with each other, how well they play off each other--they have such energy, even in their quiet moments. They try to go to concerts, the Olympics, and have no problem calling them "dates". They joke with each other, and flirt, and feel free to act like themselves, even if they're acting like total dorks. They're not really nervous around each other, or constrained (except in a few moments, like the adorable shyness at the end of The Christmas Invasion). They love being together, and aren't afraid to express that.
5. They accept each other for who they are. There were a few bumps in the beginning, when they were still getting to know each other, but as they got to know each other better, they accepted each other more. The Doctor accepted Rose's father issues, even when they were clearly driving him crazy in Rise of the Cybermen, and he accepted Rose's ties to her home--Mickey, Jackie, everything else. Rose accepted he was alien, and that he can often be a dork, and rude. She accepted that sometimes he had to make choices that she didn't like, and she accepted his commitment/abandonment issues. They just accept each other, and love each other wholly.
6. They respect each other. Rose respects him for the way he lives his life, how he can be uncompromising, unwilling to give in, getting involved in horrible situations, but still being able to find joy in life. The Doctor respects Rose for the skills she has that he doesn't--"Rose would know"--for her empathy--"People are dying and Rose would care"--for her courage and intelligence and everything else. For the most part, he respects her right to make decisions about her own life, even when they put her in danger--the only exception is when Daleks are involved, but that's understandable, given the Time War. Otherwise--in The Long Game, after they get to Floor 500 he encourages her to go back, but accepts her decision when she refuses. In Age of Steel, he's clearly worried but still lets her go off with Pete to find alt!Jackie. He respects her ability to take care of herself, and I love that so much.
7. They believe in each other. The Doctor even says it explicitly, in what is one of my favorite speeches: "I've seen fake gods and bad gods and demi gods and would-be gods--out of all that--out of that whole pantheon--if I believe in one thing...just one thing...I believe in her." Out of all the available options, this 900-year-old Time Lord believes most in a 19/20-year-old human girl, and that's so brilliant. And she believes in him just as much--yeah, in his ability to save the world/universe/etc., but also in his ability to be a good person.
8. Rose is never actually in awe of the Doctor. She is well aware of how important he is in the scheme of things, that he saves people and worlds and whatever, but she knows him as a person so much better than as The Last Of The Time Lords, or the Lonely God. In Rose, she tells him that he'd be dead if it wasn't for her, and he agrees that she's right. He got the coordinates wrong for two of their earliest trips, Cardiff instead of Naples and coming home a year late, and has gotten it wrong multiple times since. She assumes herself his equal, challenges him to be a good person, and when she describes him to people, she doesn't say "fire and ice and rage" or Martha's story in Last of the Time Lords--she tells Jack, "When he's stressed, he likes to insult species. Cuts himself shaving, does half an hour in life forms he's cleverer than..." When she talks to Donna in Turn Left, she does say that he's a wonderful man who stopped it all from happening, but that's more factual than "he's just everything to me and he doesn't even look at me, but I don't care...'cause I love him to bits." And when Rose actually describes him, she talks about a tall man in a suit with some really great hair. It's simple, but it's also very sincerely him. She tells him when he's being rude and warns him with a look when he's got his fingers in someone else's marmalade, and that's the person she knows best, not the Oncoming Storm.
9. She wanted forever with him. For his sake, I am so happy about that. I've talked about this before, but I really think the Doctor needs someone who wants to stay with him, and I love that Rose was that person (and, hopefully, still is). I'm making my way through Classic Who, and I haven't seen that many companion departures, but those I have seen make it clear that he hurts when they leave. School Reunion makes it even more clear. I will never blame any of the companions who have chosen to leave him, for whatever reason, but I hurt for my Doctor, who always seems to come up second best. I love that Rose wanted him first and foremost, that she made it clear that "stuck with you, that's not so bad", and that she wanted to stay with him forever. I love that he had someone choose him, out of all the other choices she could have made.
10. He was often very focused on her, and payed a lot of attention to her. He gets quite the tunnel vision when she's in danger, like in Bad Wolf and The Idiot's Lantern, but as I watch more Classic Who, what strikes me the most is the regeneration. I have never seen him so positively focused on anyone during any other regeneration sequence--or, for that matter, any other companion so focused on him. In Four's debut, Robot, Sarah Jane had no problem going off to do her own thing, and Four had no problem letting her, doing his own thing as well. In Five's debut, Castrovalva, Nyssa, Tegan, and Adric do demonstrate worry, but not to the degree that Rose does (though admittedly they haven't known him as long), while he's having memory problems, calling them by names of previous companions or asking for people who are gone, and wandering around. Contrast that to the 2005 Children in Need special, where he pretty desperately wants her to be all right with his change, and is defensive when she's not. Then there's The Christmas Invasion, where he wakes up--too early--from a coma just because she asks him to help her. Surrounded by Jackie, Mickey, and Rose, it's only Rose he talks to when trying to get his information out. On the Sycorax ship, he prioritizes flirting with her, and convincing her it's still him, over talking to the Sycorax. And she worries over him even when Mickey's trying to distract her, and sits at his bedside, even mopping his forehead. She wants to take care of him, even when she doesn't understand the whole regeneration thing. As well, that she took it so badly is a measure of how much she loved him, when she felt like he abandoned her.
11. They love touching each other. Holding hands, hugging, standing so close that they practically eliminate personal space--they're just so comfortable with each other's bodies. It's wonderful to just watch them gravitate towards each other.
There are actually probably more, but it's getting late and I'm tired, so I'll stop now. :p Feel free to share your own reasons.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 11:50 am (UTC)What a fabulous summary of all the best things about them- and yes, they were equals. It's one of the more maddening fandom memes that "nobody can be equal to the Doctor." (I love that you reminded us of the "cuts himself shaving" line, too- utterly domestic, and a good counterpoint to the idea that the Doctor is this perfect, distant godly dude.) Talk about better halves, indeed.
One of the reasons I love them so much is that they are so different, in so many ways, but they fit. They just... fit. Bright, sweet nineteen-year-old shopgirl and big pompous, war-scarred antique alien and they make it work. It gives you hope- that even with all their shortcomings, their histories, they find something in each other that is brilliant and special and treasured. It never occurs to them that the other isn't "worth" their love or their trust or their loyalty. They stick together out of the joy of just being together.
*happy sigh*
I'm so glad you posted this.
no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:09 am (UTC)I love that line. What sort of bemuses me is that it came from Moffat, the same guy who gave us River Song's "armies run away" speech. And you know, the best thing about it is that it's accurate--Rose knows he does that, and I can believe he would. I can't really believe armies running away from the Doctor--he's far more likely to run away from armies.
Well, maybe Six, but only because his fashion sense is rather terrifying.I just &heart; these two and their relationship so much. :D
no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 04:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 07:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 09:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 07:16 am (UTC)From both of them having an equal relationships to how they compliment each other.. they just fit!
One of my favorite points was that Rose really does only describe the Doctor as a person. I haven't seen many of the Classic Doctor Who episodes but it's difficult to really see this all powerful being that a lot of people use to describe the Doctor. Sure we know that he's important and all that but he's still a person with his quirks.
And of course I love that they have no personal space whatsoever. And this started almost from the very beginning.
I would go on and on but I'd basically be repeating what you've listed here. Great job! :D
no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:22 am (UTC)I love their apparent dislike for personal space. :D
no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 10:08 am (UTC)I agree with everything you're saying. They are just so...I don't even have words to describe how amazing they are. You have pretty much summed them up in this post. :D
*loves her OTP*
no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:22 am (UTC):D:D:D
no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 05:22 pm (UTC)Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
You earn major points for writing this.
no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 06:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-27 04:24 am (UTC)