(no subject)

[rynne]

I don't imagine Doctor Who has suddenly got enough money to move to London, so now I guess Moffat is okay with leaving his kids for a long time or moving them to Cardiff. Damn, I was hoping that would continue to prevent Moffat from taking over. Oh well.

This is actually pretty ironic. Just yesterday I was looking at some of the Supernatural misogyny discussion and being slightly smug that my show is really pretty awesome with women. I really hope that doesn't change with Moffat, that he can keep his views from influencing the show. Well, too much, since I doubt he'd hold those views if he didn't think they were right, and if he thinks they're right, he'd have no problem pushing them onto the show. Gah.

Moffat has written some pretty awesome episodes (excepting Girl in the Fireplace), and I am cautiously looking forward to the upcoming episodes. I'm not convinced of his ability to follow on from established character development and emotional continuity, but I think things will actually be easier with him as showrunner rather than just a one-story-per-season writer. Moffat likes telling his story more than going along with other people's stories, which is where a lot of the disconnect comes from, and if the entire thing is his story, then it'd be harder for him to fall out of sync. Of course, there's always being out of sync with the Doctor's previous emotional development, which leaves me actually hoping that David Tennant is not doing S5. If Moffat gets to start over with a brand new Doctor, he won't have to deal with Ten's emotional arc, and he won't have a chance to mess it up.

This news also makes me glad that I'm already pretty convinced that this season is the last of Rose we'll see in the show. Now I'm really, really hoping that S4 will end with the Doctor and Rose off into the sunset like Seven and Ace at the end of Survival, that they live her life together, and when the specials start, the Doctor is more emotionally stable for having had her. The specials maybe emphasize how good she was for him while gradually phasing mention of her out, and Moffat gets to start without having to deal with that relationship. I think that'd make the most sense, since I doubt Moffat loves emo!Doctor the way RTD does, and I rather think he'd like to make the Doctor more like he was in the Classic series. Then we can have Rose's memory, and the Doctor can move on.

I'm also going to be glad that, the way my obsessions run, usually lasting only two or three years, by the time Moffat starts I likely won't be as invested in the show as I am now. :p

Basically, I'm going to be...cautious. Right now I'm really reminded of how The West Wing was never quite as good once Aaron Sorkin left (also after four seasons), so I'm just going to have to wait and see.

Comments

[ariastar.livejournal.com]

I keep hearing tell of Moffat's misogyny, and I am curious as to where that opinion comes from? I am racking my Doctor Who brain and the closest I can come up with is "well, the Doctor did play knight in shining armor in Girl in the Fireplace," and as far as Jekyll's concerned, Moffat has a lot of problems that come up in my mind before mistreatment of women. I'm not calling false misogyny here at all, I am genuinely curious as to what the basis is for that call. Explain?

[rynne.livejournal.com]

The source I've been able to find is this article", where he says, "There’s this issue you’re not allowed to discuss: that women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. That’s the truth. We don’t, as little boys, play at being married - we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands." Plus another gem about the lack of respect in today's society for anything male. Bleh.

Regarding GitF, I'm told he once said something like "If you can't understand loving two women at the same time, then you're not a man." I can't find a source on that, but given the above quote I'm more inclined to believe he really did say that. Especially since, on the GitF commentary (which I admit I haven't seen, and don't want to, but it'd be easy enough to check), he's supposed to have said something about how the Doctor wouldn't understand why Rose and Reinette might not want to share a TARDIS, and would have to have Mickey explain it to him. So basically he wouldn't understand them being jealous of each other--even though the Doctor's been jealous of Rose's men (Mickey, Adam, Jack)? Total double standard, created entirely by Moffat.

And for things actually in the Whoverse, rather than commentary about them or interviews, I very much dislike the "king's wife and king's girlfriend" parallels in GitF, applied to Rose and Reinette. I won't go into that here or this will end up an extremely long comment, but if you're interested in my views on GitF, you can check out my conversation with thunderemerald here.

[ariastar.livejournal.com]

Oh yikes, Moffat. While I don't see the level of creepy in that linked article actually bleeding over extremely into what he writes for shows (I confess I really liked Girl in the Fireplace, but also that the problems with it are real and valid and uncomfortable problems), that's still really not good at all. And while I've fanwanked his nonunderstanding of the problem of having both Rose & Reinette on board to be a product of the Doctor being an alien, not a man, it still ... needs that fanwanking. Hopefully he will not end up messing with Ten or visiting his intentions too much, and just write good fun clever things, which is what he is good at.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's bled over extremely (it's more in GitF than the others, which is still one out of four episodes)--so far. But that was when he was only writing an episode or two per season, not when he had long-term character arcs at his disposal. So, now that he will have those long-term arcs, and given his views, I'm sorta nervous about what he'll do with them.

And while I've fanwanked his nonunderstanding of the problem of having both Rose & Reinette on board to be a product of the Doctor being an alien, not a man, it still ... needs that fanwanking.

I can't even fanwank it away like that. If the Doctor doesn't understand the problem of having both Rose and Reinette on board, then he wouldn't have displayed jealousy over Mickey, Adam, and Jack. In The Doctor Dances, which is even a Moffat episode, he's insulted at the implication that being an alien makes him not a man. It's a double standard, makes the Doctor a hypocrite, and is just something I can't think of any explanation for that will make me like it.

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

This is actually pretty ironic. Just yesterday I was looking at some of the Supernatural misogyny discussion and being slightly smug that my show is really pretty awesome with women.

Haha, while I'm not in Spn fandom, I've seen that discussion around and had the same feelings of smuggery.

Definitely agreeing with you on DT leaving and hoping for that sort of ending too. If Moffat starts with a clean slate, it might be a different show (which I've already decided to call New New Who, to differentiate) but I might get to enjoy it, if not obsess. If I don't get that and it sucks, it may kill my joy for s1-4.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Much as I'd miss DT, I really don't want Moffat mesing with his Doctor. (Also, I think it'd be easier to wrap up his character arc with the specials, rather than extend it into S5.) But since the BBC was so eager to keep him on Who that they're doing specials while he does Hamlet, I'm not sure they'd want to let him go so soon.

I have the potential to enjoy New New Who, I think. I mean, I really like Classic Who, for all that there's no Rose and no specific character arcs that I can discern (though that just might be because I've missed a lot of serials). But if it sucks, it will either kill my joy for S1-4 as well, or leave me firmly in AU-land. :p

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

Haha... I remember so desperately saying "but if they did the specials so he can do Hamlet, he must be back". Now I hate that idea. What Moffat has done to my brain...

And yeah, I enjoy Classic Who. I tend to think New New Who will go down that route more: less character depth. And I will probably enjoy it: I like shiny sci-fi things. But if Moffat kills the character of the Tenth Doctor (I did not like GitF!Ten at all) then that will possibly kill my New Who love, whereas at least if there's a definite dividing line then it can be New Who and New New Who, not the same show.

[queenrikki-hp.livejournal.com]

But since the BBC was so eager to keep him on Who that they're doing specials while he does Hamlet, I'm not sure they'd want to let him go so soon.

I don't know about that. At least according to an interview I heard, the break and the specials didn't have anything to do with David do Hamlet. If I remember correctly, David said that he was only able to do Hamlet because the break was already planned.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Really? I'd heard it was for DT's benefit, not that he just took advantage of it. Well, if that's true, maybe he really won't do S5.

[queenrikki-hp.livejournal.com]

I think that's what most people thought. I know I did until he said it. This, of course, is based on what I remember, I'll have to hunt down the audio and listen to it again just to be totally sure. (I delete the last bit because I'm not sure if the interview I mentioned is the right one).

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

There's no power on this earth that would leave me wanting Tennant to leave, BUT! I do hope that RTD uses his finals days to wrap up the Rose relationship, end it, and leave Ten in a good and happy place, like you said, with the sunset and all. But I really really don't want Tennant to leave. Ever.

Unless he's leaving to come to New York and, you know, do theatre here. And marry me.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

I actually rather doubt Tennant will leave. I mean, if the BBC was so eager to keep him that they were willing to do specials while he does Hamlet, I don't think they'll let him go so easily. And David still seems to love this job, so I'm not sure he'd want to leave.

I do sorta want him to, though. First because I don't want Moffat to potentially mess up Ten's character, and second, because I think the specials would be a good place to wrap up his character arc as a whole. But even if he stays, this news actually leaves me somewhat more confident that RTD will leave him in a good place, which hopefully means a favorable resolution with Rose.

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

You know, that's really true -- they won't let him go that easily. Not now that he's like the most popular guy in Europe or whatever. :)

(LET IT BE SO.)

I'm also more or less of the opinion that as long as the Rose story has been wrapped up, there isn't much you CAN do to mess up Ten's arc, because if he's had resolution with her, he'll pretty much be a blank slate. Rose was Nine's life. Then Rose was Ten's life. Take off the rose-colored glasses (I am so sorry, I had to), and you have an entirely new Ten. I say let Moffat play, so long as Tennant gets to make it his own.

[demeter918.livejournal.com]

I only recently discovered the interviews in question, and I've been popping in between panic and uneasiness. Mostly because you don't really see it in any of his written episodes (excepting maybe Girl in the Fireplace) and I've been wanting to give him benefit of the doubt.

But I completely agree about the the continuity issue; if he's helming S5, I'd actually also prefer Tennant to quit. Moffat doesn't have the greatest track record with Doctor/Companion interactions and issues (we'll see what he does with the newest two episodes he's penned) and since this is as much as the Companion Show for me as it is the Doctor Show, I'm a bit worried that it'll bleed through.

I suppose it's possible that we'll revert to Classic Who? Stand-alone episodes with seasonlong storylines relegated downward?