Survey, please answer

[rynne]

This is something I've wanted to do for awhile, but only got around to thinking up actual questions for today.

A couple notes, first. When I say "lying about your age", I mean, for instance, saying that you're nineteen when you're really sixteen. *g* As can be inferred from the first question, when I say "underage", I mean below eighteen years of age, and when I say "of age", I mean eighteen or older, because that is the way the United States classifies of age and underage, and most people in fandom (including me), are from the US. This survey is meant to reflect from whenever you entered fandom to now, however long it's been.

Not every question is going to be applicable to every person. If there's something that doesn't apply to you, just skip it.

LJ only allows fifteen questions in a poll, so for #15, I had a sort of catch-all question, for if I do a follow-up poll.

If you want anything clarified, feel free, of course, to ask in a comment, and I'll do my best to explain what I mean.

Note that the results of this poll are viewable to no one (besides me, but I solemnly swear I will not do anything with any names), so if you're underage, still lying, and don't want anyone to know, don't worry--no one will find out from this.

[Poll #388234]

Please pimp this anywhere you can, because I want as wide a group to answer as possible. I'm about to email daily_snitch, quickquote, and sunday_prophet myself.

Again, feel free to comment on anything you like. It's something I've been curious about for a long time, and I want to know.

EDIT: There is an addendum to this survey that includes questions about maturity and so on, because of the response here. I would appreciate it if you filled that out too.

EDIT2: Because I keep forgetting about RPGs...here is one specifically for RPGs.

Comments

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I don't care one way or the other, I just wish people wouldn't tell me about it. Seriously. I don't want to know.

[sandy-phoenix.livejournal.com]

Well, I said it depends on the question about whether or not people lie about their ages and about viewing NC-17 stuff. My reasons are the same for both questions. See, I would want to take the individual maturity into account. Some people can handle it at a younger age. Others are never mature enough to view it without it skewing their view of reality. That is a broad sort of explanation but I don't really want to write a dissertation. I just mean that it depends on the individual.

[memorycharm.livejournal.com]

I'm with musesfool. I don't really care, and I honestly don't want to know.

*Except* in the case of RPGs (okay, I've only ever played in one, and it's a really recent development). It would make me feel icky if I found out a player in an over-18 RPG was actually underage.

[archon-mentha.livejournal.com]

If you're of age, do you mind if underage people read/write/draw/look at NC17 fic/art, even if they're not lying?

I said it depends, too. There's too much gray area for movie ratings to accurately describe content in fics/movies. Is it light and loving, or serious BDSM or darkfic?

Based on these answers, it also depends on who the writer/artist is, how old the reader is, how mature they are and whether their parents would disapprove and why.

If the work is mine, I don't mind knowing - but only if the reader's parents are aware and OK with it.

[idroppedarice.livejournal.com]

Hmm, see, I have lied once in the past so I could get access to an NC-17 archive. Surprisingly, I've never actually accessed the archive as yet, even though I'm of age now. I used to care a little about what underage people were reading/viewing, but when it comes to fandom, fics and art, then I don't think that it's a big deal. I mean, there are certain artworks that I would feel uncomfortable about knowing that someone under the age of at least 16 was viewing, because in some cases it is flat out porn. However, I've yet to think that any sort of writing should be censored.

In terms of the lying thing, most people who come across NC-17 archives or the like where age verification, etc., is required usually go looking for it, rather than stumbling across it. In that case, they're probably already even a little familiar with the content that they are going to find and obviously not adversly affected by it. Basically, to me, when it comes to fandom and the HP fandom in particular, I'm fine with people lying about their age to join particular mailing lists or the like because I think that most people are fairly mature about it, or at least can use judgement and discretion. Though, that probably has a lot to do with the fact that all the people that I've come across within fandom who have lied about their age have turned out to be extremely mature people that I would trust even in RL, and I think that really is the wider trend.

Re: #6

[greenwitch.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't care if people lie about their age to get onto sites that may be age restricted, because you're probably mature enough to be reading it if you're looking for it (I mean, there's kids having sex at 13, 14, so why can't they go look at porn? Though personally I think kids having sex that young isn't particuarly good, but whatever.)

However, if you're lying directly to people who you may be developing friendships with, that's something else. I can understand why, but yeah, I'd be a bit offended in that case (personally 'cause I'm one of those people who does like to know things about people I interact with online so they're not just pennames on a screen.)

Re: #6

[greenwitch.livejournal.com]

I mean, there's kids having sex at 13, 14, so why can't they go look at porn?

Okay, scratch that, porn is usually more explicit than sex, but... well, you know what I mean.

[silver-rising.livejournal.com]

Well I had a sticky situation... I lied about my age because of RPG stuff. It was stupid really, but two people that I thought were just So Cool revealed that they were about 5 or 6 years older than me, and I was... 17 I think, and I felt stupid and young and lied about my age because I thought they wouldn't RP with me if I was underage. Which SEEMED like a good idea at the time. But then one of the people, who I still consider to be one of my dearest friends, found out I lied and confronted me about it. Not fun. I felt horribly guilty for quite a long time, and felt horrible for lying to close friends. At the time it seemed smart, because I never thought I'd get close with people I RP'd with, but in the end? SO not worth it.

When it comes to RPGs, I'd REALLY prefer that people didn't lie about their age, because
1. I know how horrible it is when the truth comes out and you hurt people
2. You don't want to be RPing with 13 year olds, not matter what.

When it comes to NC-17 art and fic... it depends on how old they are (i.e. 17 as opposed to 12) and their maturity level. It's just rather sticky in general.

[fraught.livejournal.com]

Heh :). When I first joined online fandom, I was sisteen (or at least close to sixteen -- I might have been fifteen). I'm twenty-one now and I told my flist about having lied about my age a while ago (*digs through memories*. Ah, here it is). Um, I don't really care if underage girls read/write/look at slash because that would be kind of hypocritical of me, wouldn't it?

I lied because I wanted to be admitted to slash lists and I wanted to read slash fiction without anyone hassling me about it. I know it's not the same in every case, but I personally was mature enough to handle it, and frankly, I thought the rules were stupid because the same people who wouldn't let me read teh boysex would allow me to read hetsmut.

It does feel good to actually be of age now, though :)

[manynames.livejournal.com]

I was 13 when I first started participating in online fandom. I used to say I was older on fanfiction.net and stuff, because most of the long, plotty fic that I want to read had smut in it - I barely even looked at the smut, just skipped it for the plot. I was fairly lame at 13 :D

I'm 17 now - I still read 18-only fic and look at NC-17 art and stuff; my mother is in fandom and she knows exactly what I look at, and if she's happy about it, I don't see why it's a problem really.

[nyourdrms.livejournal.com]

I messed up on one of my answers and couldn't retract it. Maybe you'll be able to figure that out. I'm not underage of course. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I worry about the really young kids reading and writing NC17 material on the net. I know that they are and it concerns me. I have a 12 year old daughter, and I can't imagine her on the net in one year reading and writing NC17 material. That just scares me. Sixteen, fifteen, well that's different, maybe it won't be if they are my daughters but we all have our double standards eh? I'm trying hard to have an open mind really.

T

[ceilidh]

It depends, for me.

Fic wise - on my personal website I have NC-17 material passworded because I don't want it googlable and I don't want it immediately connected with my 'real' name (which it would get out, being on my server with my billing address blah blah blah.) Considering my job, then it's a CYA thing. I don't mind posting it openly on LJ comms because it's less likely to be immediately connected with me, kwim? I don't care who reads it because I am not directly involved in the interaction between the reader and me. Okay, I would be squicked if I knew say, 14 year olds were reading it. I don't want my students reading that stuff. Just... no. (Course my students are technically too young to have lj accounts and stuff anyway, but I bet some of them do. Which is their PARENTS fault, not mine.) If I did find out that my students were reading my stuff, I'd take it all down or lock it all up including on LJ. It's not worth losing my job over. Hopefully it won't get to that point.

In RPGs that involve adult situations - NO. No underage. Because there is *interaction* there, direct back and forth of adult material, I am VERY uncomfortable with underage folks participating even if they aren't actually involved in that particular scene. I booted someone very abruptly from an RPG once because they were 13 at the time they joined and it clearly stated that you had to be 17+. They lied about this and it was not acceptable.

[alpheratz.livejournal.com]

I replied "Depends" to #6. This is because I don't want to be lied to personally - I honestly don't care how old anyone is and what kind of porn they look at, and would never tell anyone if they confided in me, but I'd probably be upset if someone I was friends with lied to me about their age.

I also answered "No" to the second question, but I should probably explain more. I was about thirteen I was having an email exchange with a high-schooler, and I never let her know how old I was. I never lied to her, but she never asked me directly. I have no idea what I would have done if she'd asked me, but likely I'd've told the truth.

Hope this is helpful.

[boho-life.livejournal.com]

Well, everything used to be 171717 and then suddenly everyone changed it to 18. What's up with THAT. I'm 17, by the WAY.

Eh, everyone always thought/thinks I'm older than I am (though at times I regress to a five year old), and the large majority of my friends are older, so it never really ocurred (sp?) to me not to.

[paradox01.livejournal.com]

Howdyho. I'm underage. I don't really have a problem with other people looking at restricted material but I always wonder.. do their parents know? How would they react? Hmm.. lyying about your age - well, to get a yahoo/hotmail/fictionalley account it's *necessary*.
I would prefer though if restricted material was password-coded or something, because I *do* have a problem with it, and I'm sure that many other underaged readers do, stumbling across it accidentally and well... being rather scarred afterwards. So, no, I don't have a problem with underaged readers reading NC17/R stories - but I do think that there should some sort of warningpage/password/ratingclearlymarked so idiots like myself don't find out more than they ever really wanted to know. =P

[mylexie.livejournal.com]

I'm 22, and have never lied about my age, even when I joined fandom at 16/17. In the Netherlands, most things which would be rated '18' in the US or the UK are rated '16' (except for driving, which I find very smart). At 16, people are allowed to drink. If dealing with depressions etc, they can decide on whether they want treatment or not. Etc. Youth here don't get mollycoddled quite so much, in general, and specifically when it comes to sex. Dutch people believe in good sex-ed, so much so that by the time kids are fourteen, they want to throw up when yet another biology (or some other) teacher wants to discuss sex. We get told over and over about the dangers of STDs, and it works. We get told that we should make up our own mind about whether or not we want to have sex. Videoclips aren't boycotted, perhaps filtered till after eight pm if too graphic.
Reading NC-17 stuff at sixteen isn't unusual for Dutch kids. However, things where non-consensual stuff, heavy BDSM, torture etc are discussed, I find less suitable. Reading about sex can be a form of education too - and a way for teenagers to find out what they like, what turns them on, what turns them off, etc. So, when someone is above the age of, say, fourteen, I don't mind them reading some loving NC-17. Heavy angst, violence, and non-con I think should be labeled very clearly, and seperately from 'normal' sex though. Teenagers shouldn't read that if not ready. And they can only decide if they know what a story is about.


(ps: the Dutch have a far bigger problem with violence than with sex. I personally find that not a bad idea - where sex is meant for enjoyment, violence destroys, spreads hatred and intolerance..)

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I was already well over 18 when I joined online fandom, but I lied about my age to buy print zines, back in the day. I don't care if people lie about their age or just read NC-17 stuff without saying anything about their age, but I'd rather they didn't tell me they're underage.

[tinitinytina.livejournal.com]

I lied about my age to protect myself back in the day. I'm not so worried about it now, but a few years ago (hell, I wasn't even 15 yet), there would be people who approached me online (and they usually were guys), and they would ask me invasive questions, and I couldn't get away from them without blocking (which I despise doing), so I lied to feel less vulnerable. It works too, if done correctly.

And call me stupid, but I had another question in which I picked an answer that was to be explained in a comment, but I forgot which one. @_@ If you let me know, I'll be willing to explain.

[latentfunction.livejournal.com]

Right, when I was lying about my age, I was 14 and telling random boys in chat rooms that I was 18 so they'd talk to me. It had nothing to do with fandom, really.

I was about two months shy of 18 when I found fandom, and read NC-17 stuff without really understanding that I wasn't supposed to, and then I was 18 by the time I found stuff that made an issue over being 18 (mailing lists, locked archives, etc.).

I don't really mind if people lie about their age so long as they do it well. With you, I had no idea that you weren't how old you said you were, because you acted (and wrote) maturely. You obviously passed for a college student, even to other people who were in college, and while I did have a, "wait, she's been lying moment?" there for a second, I shrugged it off because it didn't really matter.

Also, you were producing fic, and good fic. That made it almost even better. You weren't just there to read some free porn, you were there to add to fandom.

I would really only care about someone lying if they were young, and obnoxious, and very vocal in whatever it is they did. Plebey teenyboppers, really.

(Yeah, I'd probably care a lot more about the legal issues if they could really affect me, like if I ran an archive, or if I had loads of NC-17 fic out there that kids could find, but I don't. I can understand why it is an issue to some people, but it's really not to me. Maybe that makes me selfish, but it's easier that way.)

[lykaios.livejournal.com]

I used to flat out lie when I was younger and would come out of hiding on Yahoo groups, but not so much anymore. My friends know how old I am. At least I assume they do. I'm only a little hesitant about it sometimes, because I belong to a few groups I maybe shouldn't. I understand if people are uncomfortable with underage people in the fandom but it's a little annoying to me, because it's not as though I'm going to cross some magical barrier ten months from now when I am of age my fandom definition. I'm not going to be any different.

Does it count if I've already reached the age of consent in my state? :P

[revolutional.livejournal.com]

Speaking as the person on the other end of this, I have to agree with Chelsea. That's why I put 'it depends' as my answer for whether I care if people lie about their age. If they just want to read fic or view fanart, then I agree with the other people who said this - that they've generally sought it out and are familiar with the content before they lie. But with RPGs and developing friendships with people, then I wouldn't reccommend lying. It was just lucky that Chelsea and I were so close already when the truth came out, otherwise the outcome might have been different.

And I agree with what she said about RPing with 13 year olds. It's just icky. Plus, some people are more mature than others, which is why I believed Chelsea was as old as she said she was. I have people on my flist currently who are 16 and some I would characterise as mature and others, to be honest, I find a bit annoying and young.

[lykaios.livejournal.com]

By fandom definition, rather.

[krabapple.livejournal.com]

14. If you're of age, do you mind if underage people read/write/draw/look at NC17 fic/art, even if they're not lying?

I checked the "depends" option on the poll, so I'm explaining it here. :)

Mostly, this matters to me on the "how underage are we talking about here?" front. If underage gernally means about 16-17, then I am completely fine with an "underage" person being involved in NC-17 fandom. Certainly, I think a person in that age reange (even fifteen, perhaps) probably has the maturity to handle the subject matter--or I would at least hope so. I would also hope that person can excercise their own good judgement about what to read/write/draw, and how their fandom practices affect them. I think it's perfectly okay for NC-17 work to be part of a person's sexual development (and it's been that way in my case, too), as long as the person, whatever his or her age, has a good perspective on the whole thing.

On the other hand, I think that there is such a thing as "too young." For example, I wouldn't be very comfortable with a tweleve or even thirteen year old reading my own NC-17 material, for example. Every person/kid is different, and if it's done with parental permission, that's a different story, but I do think that there needs to be a certain level of emotional and intellectual maturity involved before an underage person gets involved in NC-17 fandom.

Interestingly enough, or not :)), this sort of corresponds to my thoughts about chan fanfiction. If the "child" involved is 16 or 17, I think they are mostly capable of making their own decisions. We all make decisions, no matter what our ages, that may or may not be appropriate for us, but I think a 16 or 17 year old can at least make a relatively informed decision. But ask a 12 or 13 year old to make an informed decision about sex? Not so sure about that.

Anyway, I'll stop rattling on. Just my two cents. :)

[estepheia.livejournal.com]

# 14
I answered DEPENDS because: I had my first sexual encounter when I was 14 and the man I had sex with was twice my age. That happened because I was utterly clueless. If I had had access to moderately smutty fanfic, I doubt I would have been as gullible.
On the other hand I have different standards when it comes to horror. I have read dark stories that are so gruesome, that even at the age of 41 I can barely wash the images from my mind. So, I am all for clearly labelled fic and all for keeping underage readers away from the truly harrowing stuff, but I do believe that 18 is an odd target number when it comes to sex.

Maybe it's because I'm from Europe, but a lot of the NC-17 stuff I've seen is suitable for kids who are 16+ years old.
And like I said, once you've actually done the deed it's pretty silly not being allowed to read erotic literature.

I know at least one fanfic author who won an award for a NC-17 story that she wrote at the age of 16...

:-)
Good luck with your survey.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. lyying about your age - well, to get a yahoo/hotmail/fictionalley account it's *necessary*.

Only if you're under thirteen (and I've always been glad that I was at least thirteen when I started participating in things on the internet). And frankly I'm a bit leery of under-thirteens myself really participating in fandom, not because I don't think they're mature or nice or anything, but because they're still years away from having finished developing mentally, and they should probably wait a couple years (sorta like young people thinking they're ready to actually have sex when they're not, and so on) before they expose themselves to the kind of thing that fandom is inundated with.

And I understand about having a problem with explicit material (even if I don't have it myself :p), but I don't think it should be password coded--or at least, if it is, it should be accessible to anyone who asks. See, most smut really is clearly marked, as smut/sex if not R/NC17, and so easily avoidable by people who don't want to read/look at it. But for people who do want to read/look at it, I think they should be given the opportunity, if they think they can handle it and their parents won't mind/won't catch them.