Two things on Sirius

[rynne]

Ehehe yes me again so soon after my last entry. :p But I just remembered something that I wanted to post about. Two things, really, both about Sirius. I don't think I've ever really taken a stance on the first issue yet, so I am now.

1. Yes, he is really dead.
Sirius is dead because he is a tragic hero. Bear in mind that it's been a couple years since I really studied what tragic heroes are, but from what I remember, Sirius fits the mold nearly perfectly.
1. He is born to privilege, almost royalty (or at least the Blacks consider themselves so. A powerful family, at any rate).
2. He has a tragic flaw, recklessness.
3. His tragic flaw of recklessness has brought him lower and lower, off his pedestal and out of privilege, as through it the Prank happens, he goes after Peter and is thrown in Azkaban, is pretty much insane through most of PoA, and finally, is completely miserable in Grimmauld Place.
4. His tragic flaw leads to his death, because he rushed to the DoM despite precautions set for his safety, and taunted Bellatrix, causing her to hex him and him to fall through the veil.

Sirius is a tragic hero, and tragic heroes die, because of their own mistakes. They are not brought back to life. I'm very sure that JKR realizes Sirius is a tragic hero (I daresay he was created with that literary convention in mind), and I can't imagine her breaking it by raising him back to privilege--life. I just can't. This is also why I can't really buy all the theories on why he isn't dead, like how it was really Bode's death that JKR was talking about, so Sirius could really be alive. He's nearly the very model of what I learned a tragic hero is, and because of that, I think that even if he is alive, he's not going to survive the series.

Do I think we'll see him again? Yes. I think Harry will eventually have to go to the underworld (go to Death in order to find out how to kill someone who's almost immortal--makes sense to me) or something, and Sirius will be his spirit-guide, or some other useful thing like that. But I don't think we'll see him again in the land of the living, not the way that we have been.

Do I still enjoy resurrection fics? HELL. YES. I like happy things, like sunshine, and unicorns cavorting in fields of daisies, and other things that could possibly drive people to sweetness-overload nausea (which could also explain why I like OBHWF). And like Sirius being alive and living happily ever after with Remus *g*. I like reading fanfics about that, and they're one of my favorite genres, as long as they're plausible. I expect that thistlerose's, once she actually writes it, will be my favorite HP fanfic ever. Hell, I'm even writing one myself! (Off and on, but still.) I adore resurrection fics. But liking it in fics does not mean I want to see it in canon, because even if fanfic writers are allowed to explore different scenarios and extrapolate whatever the hell we want, I want JKR to follow through on the literary devices she sets up in her books, and I think she's set up Sirius as a tragic hero.

Anyone is, of course, welcome to tell me that what I think a tragic hero is isn't correct. Like I said, it's been a couple years since I learned what one was, and I may very well have forgotten something. *shrugs* This is just what I think.


Now for the second thing, which is ENTIRELY FRIVOLOUS and meant ALL IN GOOD FUN and should NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. XD

2. Sirius is so someone's bitch.
I vote Remus's! :D

My theory is that, since his family disowned him and doesn't want to claim him, he wants someone else to. And that because he's a Good Dog, he wants a Master. *g* (And inspired by that, you know what would be perfect? Fic/art of Remus and Sirius doing it doggy style, Remus on top, and with Sirius wearing a collar and leash, with Remus holding the leash. Don't suppose someone would write/draw it for me...*puppy eyes* :p)

Anyway. Yes. Sirius is so someone's bitch, and I say Remus's, just because. And also because of "Sit down, Sirius." And how Sirius obeyed. Such a good doggie! *g* This calls for the Footpad icon, doesn't it? :D

Okay, time to shut up now. XD Especially as I have somewhere to be in less than eight hours and should probably be asleep, not theorizing...

Comments

[jurhael.livejournal.com]

It's hard to say with Rowling, but I do think that if she were to resurrect Sirius, you can bet there'd be some hefty consequences.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, that thing about the tragic hero bit? I've been saying that for almost a year now, so clearly I agree with you.

However, tragic heroes, in the classical mold, don't actually have to die, they just have to lose everything. Oedipus, for example.

They usually die though.

[losselen.livejournal.com]

Yes, he is really dead.

I keep on telling people that and they keep on looking at me in a murderous way.

2. He has a tragic flaw, recklessness.

At least it's not hubris. Although...

[losselen.livejournal.com]

Which is why I love the Greeks so much.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know, but Sirius has already died, so it would be out of the mold for him to be brought back to life (or revealed as not really dead, or whatever), because he would be gaining things back.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

It's pretty close to hubris really.

I would have pegged his tragic flaw as arrogance, I think?

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Quite true. The one thing that puts a kink in the theory, which as I said I do actually agree with, is... well, we don't know that she had "tragic hero" in mind. In fact, one could argue that she already deviated from that pattern by making him not the actual hero, but rather the mentor/father figure/whatever of the hero.

But honestly I think that's stretching and I do think he's totally dead.

[losselen.livejournal.com]

Personally, I wouldn't say so exactly, but I'm very, very certain that it is one of the main factors.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

You and me both. :D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

It's hard to peg really. He's got so many flaws, HAHA.

But the reason I peg it as arrogance is because I would say that most of the risks he takes are based in his unwavering ego and overconfidence.

On the other hand, the biggest mistake he ever made, I think, was mistrusting Remus, which... well we don't really know why that was as such.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

I think he was arrogant, but that was another flaw, not his tragic one. I think his tragic flaw is recklessness because it was him being reckless with Remus's secret that led to the Prank, him being reckless and not thinking that led to him finding Peter and subsequently going to Azkaban, him being reckless that led to him going to the DoM, and him being reckless that made him taunt Bellatrix.

[arislanchan.livejournal.com]

Ah, perfectly logical reasoning for why he is dead and will stay dead. <3

Yes. Sirius is so someone's bitch, and I say Remus's, just because. And also because of "Sit down, Sirius." And how Sirius obeyed.

So true. :D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Oh I totally get your reasoning. I just tend to attribute the recklessness to arrogance - his belief that he is infallible and that none of this stuff he is doing will cause any problem, because he's just got it like that. But that's me. :)

[rynne.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's all that much of a deviation from the pattern, considering what an epic HP is, and how much room there is for practically anyone. Snape so totally pegs me as a Byronic hero, for instance--he's not the hero of the story, of course, but he has his own sidestory that he probably is the hero of, his spying. Sirius has his own story that he's the tragic hero of, and the fact that his story ties in with Harry's and is encompassed by Harry's does not, I think, negate the tragic heroicness (or whatever) of it.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Well, like I said, I do agree with you. And I tend to think she was considering Sirius as a tragic hero subplot of sorts.

That said, because I don't know she was thinking that, and because it's such an iconic/instinctive story that people will sometimes stumble onto bits of it without meaning to (which is probably why some stories feel "wrong", because people stumble onto iconic storylines subconsciously and don't follow through with the pattern we expect) I'm not, ultimately, placing money on either direction, even though I have an opinion (namely, he'll be back but not alive.)

[rynne.livejournal.com]

I think that it's hard to separate arrogance and recklessness, really. But Sirius, while definitely arrogant in some ways, does not, I think, have a belief that he is infallible. He knows, very intimately, that two decisions of his, telling Snape about the Willow and switching Secret Keepers, caused Very Bad Things to happen to people he loved. I can't imagine that what his arrogance has done to people hasn't be pounded into him in Azkaban. But there's also that he survived all of that, which would lead to his arrogant belief that he could survive anything, which leads to recklessness. Hence why it's hard to separate arrogance from recklessness. I just think that recklessness comes to the fore. :)

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

That's why I said it's just me, really. :) Because I think at that point it's down to character interpretation.

Cause I actually do think he thought he was infallible, right up to the end.

[losselen.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that is absolutely true.

(I think his mistrust of Remus is a rather complex thing. It’s certainly paranoia; fear is perhaps the greatest weapon known to man. And second, it is group identity. We all strive to celebrate difference, but by instinct we all reject mismatches, especially under the intense pressure of fear. It is why groups are always and always will be discriminated against. I mean, the mythology of werewolves—let’s not get into the what-is-a-therianthrope discussion—sprang from these elements. Third, I do not believe what they shared was so much as a true love thing as anything else. It’s just too contrived, too against-all-odds like.

Of course, these are only my views on the dynamics—if you’d call three factors a dynamic situation—behind that. There must be more, or a physical event instead of purely psychological developments that lead to Sirius’ mistrust, but that’s up to Rowling.)

[rynne.livejournal.com]

I do rather think it's deliberate, though. I mean, why make the Blacks so rich and powerful, if not to give Sirius a high place to topple off of? And I can't help but think that, as so many of her fans are analyzing her books so deeply, she'll be looking deeply at them too, and so on. And I don't call myself all that good at analysis, by any means, but I daresay that if a sixteen-year-old like me can see something like this, JKR, who writes for a living and so should know traditional character molds, would too.

I know you agree with me :). But this discussion is fun!

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I try not to speculate on what caused the mistrust, because I'm entirely too biased to get a decent reading on it. However, I don't believe in true love, so I don't suppose I'm going to disagree. ;) Although I don't know if you and I mean it the same way.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha that's the BEST ICON EVER! XD Cloud/Sephiroth OTP!!one!1eleventy-one!!

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Not the least giving the message that loved ones can come back to life...

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Well, in fairness, writers usually look at their work FAR less closely than the fans do. And writers who have been writing longer than she has have stumbled onto traditional character molds by accident.

I don't even know why I'm arguing, though, since I don't disagree. ;)

I suppose because I have a strong policy against ever assuming I know anything when dealing with other people's work. I've run into far too many stories which seemed iconic and obviously of a particular mold and then twisted at the end and turned out to be... something else entirely... to feel comfortable with doing it, you know?

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know. And I think that Sirius falling into the tragic hero character mold is just one of the reasons he'll stay dead. There's plenty of other factors, of course. I don't know that I've come across any stories that seem of a particular mode and turned out differently, but I expect that's just lack of experience :).

[losselen.livejournal.com]

I mean it in that it can turn disastrous, can be ruined and broken. The best love is based on strong friendship, yes, how many people do truelly fall in love in school? I have no qualms about them developing an absolutely positive relationship, but to say true love, I'm not sure.

(Like you, I think I'm biased anyway, because I don't like too much happiness in a story. Happy stories don't go anywhere. It stays where it is and stays happy.)