(no subject)

[rynne]

I went into this episode with very low expectations, so I'm going to count it a good thing that it exceeded those expectations. Still, though, while there were parts I liked, on the whole I did not like this episode.

I did like what was up with the Vashta Nerada. That their forests were turned into those books, making the books their new home, makes sense. And I liked it when the Doctor talked to them. But Moffat loses points for making the Doctor an IDIOT WHO FORGOT BOOKS ARE MADE OF PAPER, WHICH COMES FROM TREES.

The team got more personality. Not much more, and definitely not to the level of TIP/TSP, but still, more. And I ended up liking Mr. Lux.

I was right about the little girl being the computer, and that everyone was basically saved to the harddrive. Dr. Moon was actually pretty cool, once we found out what he actually was.

I also liked River Song a bit better once she stopped being so focused on not telling the Doctor anything, but I also disliked her more, for reasons I'll go into later. I'm also glad we got a real explanation for why he gave her the sonic screwdriver.

Donna was amazing. Seriously, amazing. And how her husband just missed her, stuttering as he was teleported, was very sad. Though more for the potential he represented, since the relationship as shown in the Matrix the computer core was as hideously rushed as Moffat's relationships tend to be.

Now for Moffat's repetitions: I noticed "always all right", the focus on the Doctor's real name, and "everybody lives". The repetition of "always all right" was a bit annoying, but less so because of Donna's commentary on it. And while I'm glad that everybody lived, because the Doctor always needs days like that, I think it would have been better without the repetition of those two words. The other thing, though...

I am annoyed at the focus on the Doctor's real name thing. There are two options here: Moffat is teasing us, and has no intention of ever revealing it, or he will, later. I don't like either option. I don't like being teased with it, knowing he has no intention of delivering, but I don't want him to deliver, either. If we know the Doctor's real name, it doesn't really seem like Doctor Who, since the mystery surrounding his name has been part of the show since An Unearthly Child. But the cool thing about that mystery was that it was all right if it was never solved--more than that, that's how it should be. He's the Doctor, and anything else doesn't matter, because the Doctor is who he chooses to be. I don't want his real name to be this big important Thing, because it feels like either way we're bound to be disappointed.

I'm of two minds about River Song now. On the one hand, I did like her a bit better, and I do think that oh-so-ambiguous relationship was intended to have a romantic slant (sweetie, pretty boy, and the handcuffs are definite indications in that direction). And I don't have any objection to the Doctor being happy in the future. I want him to be happy. I don't want him to be miserable the rest of his life once Rose is gone.

But on the other hand, the implications of this to the show disturb me, and I'm not sure how much of this is just me being a shipper. But if we get, right now, two episodes before Rose's return, someone important enough to the Doctor that she knows his name, and who has a happy relationship with him in the future, then what does Rose's return matter? Why should the audience or the Doctor care, when everyone knows that off in the nebulous future, the Doctor will be happy with this woman?

In a previous post on Ten's character arc, I discussed why I thought the all the angst the Doctor has suffered since Doomsday practically required a happy reunion, with Rose staying. I thought the Doctor needed someone constant, who would make him happy, and that it made the most sense for this to be Rose. But there are two options here now, neither of which I like. On one hand, I'm afraid that these two episodes were a build-up for Rose not staying, pointing out that she's not needed because eventually the Doctor's going to have River Song. But on the other hand, the other option is that Moffat once again disregarded character arcs to do his own thing, introducing River just a few episodes before Rose, and that does not bode well for the show under his direction. So either Rose is superfluous or Moffat is a douche, and while I would prefer that Moffat be a douche (since I'm not sure I'd want to watch S5 anyway), I think the more likely option is that introducing River Song right now was intentional. Bah.

I do still have some hope of Rose staying with him, as this doesn't negate most of the Rose side of things I also posted about. Still, what made me so convinced Rose would stay is both of those things together, the Doctor's side and Rose's side, so now I'm more afraid.

Especially because I just don't like Doctor/River the way I do Doctor/Rose. I still think the future relationship thing is a cheat, a way of bypassing real relationship development, and I doubt we'll ever see the real thing. The Doctor and Rose had that development, that increasing investment in their relationship. We saw how much they cared for each other, as opposed to being told about it. And while River kept telling us that they were happy in the future, etc., I mostly did not like the way River treated him. Like I mentioned in my critique of Silence in the Library, in that episode she frequently came across to me as smug and selfish. She seemed to taunt the Doctor with what she knew and he didn't, and when she angsted about how he didn't know her, she didn't seem to care about how he was affected by all this. She was a bit better about that in this episode, especially once she was finally willing to give him something to base his trust on, but it still seemed like she was more telling us she trusted him in return than showing. In SitL, she seemed at first to be taking his warnings as a joke, which does not fit someone who supposedly knows the Doctor at all, and here, there was her reluctance to let him talk to the Vashta Nerada. Communication is one of his strong suits--which either she didn't know about, or she just didn't trust in his ability to do what he said he would. Neither is good for people in a supposedly happy relationship.

Then there's the end. I'm very glad that she's alive, of sorts--and more importantly, that the Doctor was able to save her, since I think he needed that. But since it seems she's a data ghost now, and probably unable to ever get to the real world again as something alive, I couldn't help but contrast her reaction to being permanently separated from the Doctor to Rose's. They both were surrounded by people they cared about, River by her team and Rose by her family, by while River was smiling and laughing and hugging them, Rose was sobbing and pounding on the wall. There is a difference, of course, in that Rose thought she could get back and River likely knew she couldn't, but River didn't even seem to care that she was permanently separated from the Doctor. The ending just reinforces this, where she's warmly telling the children (hers? strong implication, I think--which, raghsgka;l Moffat, women can want other things than marriage and babies! Let's repeat: WOMEN CAN WANT OTHER THINGS THAN MARRIAGE AND BABIES) the bedtime story about the Doctor, with no regret that I could detect. Then there's Rose, sobbing her heart out on that beach, devastated that she couldn't be with the Doctor.

River's "strong" feelings we were mostly just told about. The only concrete instance I can recall of her demonstrating feelings for him where when she sacrificed her life for his, but even then--OMG, she made him watch? She handcuffed him, made him completely helpless, in a place where he could watch her die, knowing he could do nothing to save her? Maybe it was a comfort for her, to be able to talk to him in the end, but I think it would have been torture for him. It's another instance of her being very selfish.

So River's feelings we were mostly told about, and her actions frequently belied her words. Rose's feelings we were actually shown, frequently and with great power. Rose's love for him is far, far more believable than River's, and while I want the Doctor to be happy in the future, what we saw of River in these two episodes means that I don't want him with her, because it's hard for me to believe she could actually make him happy.

No matter what, I'm going to be angry that River was introduced right now. But if it turns out that it was on purpose, to "soften" the blow of Rose leaving again at the end of the season, then I'm not sure what that will do to my love for this show.

Comments

[lalaithlockhart.livejournal.com]

On one hand, I'm afraid that these two episodes were a build-up for Rose not staying, pointing out that she's not needed because eventually the Doctor's going to have River Song.
Wah! Let's hope not. Because the weird thing about the Doctor/River relationship is that he's having to preserve the timeline the entire time. So can he really risk her the way he can the people whose history is being made up as they go along? Picnics and such - yes, let there be more of those in Ten's future (seconding the wanting-him-to-be-happy) but knowing the whole time that she's going to die and visiting her in her timeline whenever he misses her or feels like a break? Hurrrrr.

While I would prefer that Moffat be a douche (since I'm not sure I'd want to watch S5 anyway), I think the more likely option is that introducing River Song right now was intentional. Bah.
Just so long as Rose is in character I won't care. :(

[lalaithlockhart.livejournal.com]

I'm very glad that she's alive, of sorts--and more importantly, that the Doctor was able to save her, since I think he needed that. But since it seems she's a data ghost now, and probably unable to ever get to the real world again as something alive, I couldn't help but contrast her reaction to being permanently separated from the Doctor to Rose's.
It also suggests that the Doctor thinks living indefinitely as a data ghost - no character development, no living, no way to communicate, no real power - is better than dying. This is the second time he's done this in canon (third if you count the 'What's wrong with Martha' comic) and it... bothers me.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

You're thinking of Astrid, right? Because what immediately popped into my mind right there is Ursula from Love and Monsters, and how she ended up really disturbed me. And now that you've brought this up...yeah. Even more disturbing.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Because the weird thing about the Doctor/River relationship is that he's having to preserve the timeline the entire time. So can he really risk her the way he can the people whose history is being made up as they go along? Picnics and such - yes, let there be more of those in Ten's future (seconding the wanting-him-to-be-happy) but knowing the whole time that she's going to die and visiting her in her timeline whenever he misses her or feels like a break? Hurrrrr.

Yeah, that's actually sorta...urgh. I would not want to go into a relationship knowing the exact circumstances of my SO's death. That's sorta creepy. And what's worse is that she gave him enough clues that he might feel like he has to have a relationship with her to preserve the timeline.

I have hope that Rose will be in character, since it's RTD writing. But still, he wrote LotTL, with Martha's fast-forwarded characterization...

[lalaithlockhart.livejournal.com]

Because what immediately popped into my mind right there is Ursula from Love and Monsters
Waaaaah, I forgot about that. I mean, living forever could be workable under certain circumstances but... not like that. That's not living!

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Why should the audience or the Doctor care, when everyone knows that off in the nebulous future, the Doctor will be happy with this woman?

On the other hand, it's an established fact of the show that the Doctor has lots of experience with losing people, and he knows about time -- enough to know that he SHOULDN'T know when he's meant to meet River again, and dwelling on it will only bring season three redux lots and lots of angst. What he's learning this season is to focus on his own present instead of the past (Rose, Gallifrey), and this episode sort of turns that on its head and teaches him to focus on the present instead of the future -- so that the future can still happen. Don't mess with the timelines, don't read the spoilers. Just let the present happen, and let the future come when it will. I don't think having River somewhere in his indeterminate future (10 years down the line? 200?) will interfere with his joy at Rose's return.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't really think he'd be less happy at having Rose back knowing that River is in his future, but it feels like it wouldn't be so devastating should she leave again at the end, because of that future--for the audience, and maybe even him. Which is...probably a good thing, because I don't want the Doctor to hurt, but it's still something I resent because I think it makes it easier for Rose to leave, and I will be angry if that happens.

I'm not sure he's been learning to live in the present--he's been doing that all along, or he would never have been happy in S1 or S2. And he should always have already known not to mess with the future, which is why I'm not happy he was constantly asking her who she was to him.

The main reasons I am angry about Doctor/River are that it makes it easier to let Rose go, and I just plain don't like River, and for someone who supposedly knew him so well, she didn't seem to know him at all. I don't want that in the Doctor's future, and now I'm stuck with it.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

It seems like the Doctor was an idiot through most of the episode. It seems like he maybe should've made sure they were all wearing their helmets AT ALL TIMES. It seems like he maybe got people killed who could've been saved - oh, but wait, then they couldn't have been in the happyhappyjoyjoy virtual world at the end if they'd been left alive, could they? *eyeroll*

As for the rest of it... *sigh* Word. So much word.

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Someone commented on my LJ with the best-ever theory that is both pro-River and pro-Rose, which, yay. The idea (well, my reading of HER idea) is that he spent season three actively closing himself off again, after having been so open with Rose -- which is why he's so comfortable with Donna. She wants nothing to do with him romantically, so he's totally okay with that. But he's still shut down, as we see in ALL his interactions with River. He's very terse with her, which is a mixture of "Who the fuck are you?" AND "If you are implying what I think you're implying, then you've got the wrong guy."

But this story was about him learning that there is the distinct possibility, in flux in his own timeline till he completes the circuit from his side, that he could one day be open enough again to be that close to someone. AND that he doesn't doom everyone he meets. Because up till now: Rose? Parallel universe. Jack? Human anomaly. Martha? "Destroyed half her life." Astrid? Dead dead dead. But then there's River, who makes a choice to sacrifice herself, which she would have done even without him, probably, and he had the power to give her a comfortable and happy afterlife.

Take that new realization, and you have a Doctor who might be newly optimistic after he gets over the pain of meeting someone who knows his future better than he does. Optimistic enough to, say, not be afraid of being close with Rose, because things might not end up badly after all?

Let it be so!

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Moffat seems to like making the Doctor an idiot. Either that or he doesn't realize what he's doing, and I'm not sure which is worse. I'm still in awe over how utterly bad this episode was.

[rynne.livejournal.com]

Optimistic enough to, say, not be afraid of being close with Rose, because things might not end up badly after all?

I'd like that as an outcome, but given my reading of the D/River relationship, I'm not sure it could lead to that kind of thing. It's a cool theory, but just not one I can believe.

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm gonna hope for the best until the very last minute when I'm proven wrong despite how well that worked out for Last of the Time Lords. What the fuck is making me so optimistic lately? There must be something in my crackers.