thoughts on ships in DH
Aug. 1st, 2007 07:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rynneI've been meaning to do this for awhile, but I just...never quite got around to it. XD
Harry/Ginny: I've read some people complaining about how Ginny didn't have much of a role in this book, Harry just periodically thought about her, lots of telling about their relationship rather than showing, etc. And I'm thinking...dude, that's kind of the point. The thing about Harry/Ginny, as I read it during HBP and DH, is that it's more of a symbol, especially in DH. I do firmly believe that Harry was really falling in love with Ginny during HBP, as a person, but that, to him, a relationship with her also symbolized normality. He could be with her, and enjoy her company, and forget what was going on outside Hogwarts. Likewise, during DH, Ginny symbolized Harry's hope for the future, that someday Voldemort would be dead and Harry could get on with his life. I think it probably helped him, that he could take that hope out of the abstract and give it a name and a face.
I don't think that they're going to get right back together after the main body of DH, and everything's going to be hearts and flowers. I think they're going to have issues to work through, including that both of them built up idealized versions of the other, Boy-Who-Lived and Hope-and-Normalcy. But I think the first five books, especially OotP, established enough of a foundation for their friendship and their romance that they can work through those issues, get to know each other better, and end up the couple we saw in the epilogue.
Ron/Hermione: I've firmly believed these two would get together for at least seven years, so it's nice to finally be proven right. Ron/Hermione was my very first Harry Potter ship, so that kiss really made me grin madly. On the other hand, as![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
marauderthesn has noted, two things that made me uncomfortable were Hermione's bird-attack in HBP, and now her physical anger at Ron when he came back in DH. Abuse is abuse, no matter the gender of the abuser and the abused, and I don't like how both of those things seemed like they were meant to be humorous.
On one hand, the wizarding world seems to be pretty cavalier with people's safety, and if I can get over Sirius's Whomping Willow incident and ship Remus/Sirius, I can get over Hermione's actions. On the other hand, they make me uncomfortable, because although I've never been in an abusive relationship, I don't think they should ever be treated casually, and I don't know what else Hermione's actions can be called.
Thing is, I like Ron/Hermione. I've always liked Ron/Hermione. I really do think they suit each other, and could have a happy relationship. I just don't like what JKR had Hermione do when she got angry, and I'd actually rather like to read a fic that deals with that without breaking Ron and Hermione up.
Remus/Tonks: I'm actually rather torn about this ship. I have never thought they suited each other, and they never seemed like two people happily in love in either book, so I'm sorta glad I was right about that. On the other hand, I like Remus, and I like Tonks, and I wanted them to be happy, and if JKR could convince me they would have been happy with each other, good for her.
I think Remus did care about Tonks. Maybe he even loved her. Nor do I think she intentionally "trapped" him into marriage by getting pregnant or anything. What I do think is that Remus--whose biggest failing is that he'll let people get away with a lot in order to be liked--married Tonks for her sake, rather than because he really wanted to. I think he heard all those people speaking up in the hospital wing at the end of HBP, along with whoever else was in favor of them having a real relationship, and he gave in to peer pressure. He might have married her because he wanted to make her happy, and to get everyone else off his back.
But I'm not sure the relationship would have lasted. At Harry's birthday party, within the space of two sentences, Remus is established as unhappy, while Tonks was "simply radiant". I don't know about you, but I don't think I'd be radiant while my newlywed husband looked unhappy, not if I was paying any attention to his feelings as well as my own. I'm not precisely blaming Tonks here, but I think her relationship with Remus was really pretty selfish. She was so focused on what she wanted that she sorta ran roughshod over him--from that scene in the hospital wing in HBP, where Remus would not have wanted to discuss that kind of thing in public, to getting married and having a baby even though he thought it was too dangerous, she doesn't really seem to be giving his feelings as much weight as her own. And of course, Remus let Tonks do all this, and then in his usual passive-aggressive manner, tried to join the Trio rather than face his wife, so he's not blameless in this mess of a relationship either.
I am glad he went back to her, and I was happy for him and his obvious joy when Teddy was born, but I'm not sure how long it would have lasted. Frankly, I think that if Remus and Tonks had lived, they would have ended up divorced sooner or later. Maybe they really did love each other, but I don't think they loved each other enough--if they had, Tonks would have paid more attention to Remus's feelings, and Remus would have been more willing to put effort into building a happy, healthy marriage.
This relationship was very complicated, and I think I like it more for that, but I don't think it really made the characters happy, and I'll always prefer Remus/Sirius.
That was long enough. Sooner or later I'll get around to thoughts on the characters--and I have a lot of those. :p
Harry/Ginny: I've read some people complaining about how Ginny didn't have much of a role in this book, Harry just periodically thought about her, lots of telling about their relationship rather than showing, etc. And I'm thinking...dude, that's kind of the point. The thing about Harry/Ginny, as I read it during HBP and DH, is that it's more of a symbol, especially in DH. I do firmly believe that Harry was really falling in love with Ginny during HBP, as a person, but that, to him, a relationship with her also symbolized normality. He could be with her, and enjoy her company, and forget what was going on outside Hogwarts. Likewise, during DH, Ginny symbolized Harry's hope for the future, that someday Voldemort would be dead and Harry could get on with his life. I think it probably helped him, that he could take that hope out of the abstract and give it a name and a face.
I don't think that they're going to get right back together after the main body of DH, and everything's going to be hearts and flowers. I think they're going to have issues to work through, including that both of them built up idealized versions of the other, Boy-Who-Lived and Hope-and-Normalcy. But I think the first five books, especially OotP, established enough of a foundation for their friendship and their romance that they can work through those issues, get to know each other better, and end up the couple we saw in the epilogue.
Ron/Hermione: I've firmly believed these two would get together for at least seven years, so it's nice to finally be proven right. Ron/Hermione was my very first Harry Potter ship, so that kiss really made me grin madly. On the other hand, as
marauderthesn has noted, two things that made me uncomfortable were Hermione's bird-attack in HBP, and now her physical anger at Ron when he came back in DH. Abuse is abuse, no matter the gender of the abuser and the abused, and I don't like how both of those things seemed like they were meant to be humorous.On one hand, the wizarding world seems to be pretty cavalier with people's safety, and if I can get over Sirius's Whomping Willow incident and ship Remus/Sirius, I can get over Hermione's actions. On the other hand, they make me uncomfortable, because although I've never been in an abusive relationship, I don't think they should ever be treated casually, and I don't know what else Hermione's actions can be called.
Thing is, I like Ron/Hermione. I've always liked Ron/Hermione. I really do think they suit each other, and could have a happy relationship. I just don't like what JKR had Hermione do when she got angry, and I'd actually rather like to read a fic that deals with that without breaking Ron and Hermione up.
Remus/Tonks: I'm actually rather torn about this ship. I have never thought they suited each other, and they never seemed like two people happily in love in either book, so I'm sorta glad I was right about that. On the other hand, I like Remus, and I like Tonks, and I wanted them to be happy, and if JKR could convince me they would have been happy with each other, good for her.
I think Remus did care about Tonks. Maybe he even loved her. Nor do I think she intentionally "trapped" him into marriage by getting pregnant or anything. What I do think is that Remus--whose biggest failing is that he'll let people get away with a lot in order to be liked--married Tonks for her sake, rather than because he really wanted to. I think he heard all those people speaking up in the hospital wing at the end of HBP, along with whoever else was in favor of them having a real relationship, and he gave in to peer pressure. He might have married her because he wanted to make her happy, and to get everyone else off his back.
But I'm not sure the relationship would have lasted. At Harry's birthday party, within the space of two sentences, Remus is established as unhappy, while Tonks was "simply radiant". I don't know about you, but I don't think I'd be radiant while my newlywed husband looked unhappy, not if I was paying any attention to his feelings as well as my own. I'm not precisely blaming Tonks here, but I think her relationship with Remus was really pretty selfish. She was so focused on what she wanted that she sorta ran roughshod over him--from that scene in the hospital wing in HBP, where Remus would not have wanted to discuss that kind of thing in public, to getting married and having a baby even though he thought it was too dangerous, she doesn't really seem to be giving his feelings as much weight as her own. And of course, Remus let Tonks do all this, and then in his usual passive-aggressive manner, tried to join the Trio rather than face his wife, so he's not blameless in this mess of a relationship either.
I am glad he went back to her, and I was happy for him and his obvious joy when Teddy was born, but I'm not sure how long it would have lasted. Frankly, I think that if Remus and Tonks had lived, they would have ended up divorced sooner or later. Maybe they really did love each other, but I don't think they loved each other enough--if they had, Tonks would have paid more attention to Remus's feelings, and Remus would have been more willing to put effort into building a happy, healthy marriage.
This relationship was very complicated, and I think I like it more for that, but I don't think it really made the characters happy, and I'll always prefer Remus/Sirius.
That was long enough. Sooner or later I'll get around to thoughts on the characters--and I have a lot of those. :p
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no subject
Date: 2007-08-02 07:58 am (UTC)Perhaps it's because of the lack of Tonks that I can't buy this pairing - she has no real presence in the marriage, except to shape Remus' (largely negative) reactions, I suppose because of Harry's focus on Remus. When you add that to my dislike of her characterisation in HBP, it's a relationship I have difficulty understanding.
I too prefer Remus/Sirius, but I'll confess that is primarily because it's increasingly becoming the easiest way to find them in the same story :)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-02 03:45 pm (UTC)Hermione's attacks on Ron... It felt to me in both cases that Hermione had been pushed to her limit, and cracked. She isn't comfortable operating on a purely emotional level, and so her actions were unrestrained and a bit out of proportion—but only a bit. I think that that was an important part of her growth, and the growth of their relationship, that she could totally lose it. The first time, Ron can't take it, and they don't talk for months. The second time, he takes it for what it is, an expression of her hurt and love for him, and he stays. I doubt she'll be cursing him or hitting him again any time soon—she won't need to. Yell at him perhaps, but that's part of their whole dynamic. ;-)
And Remus/Tonks... :shrug: It worked for me. People lose loved ones and move on and love again all of the time—though it's never without a price. I liked Remus's meltdown in self-esteem and self-control when he came to Grimmauld Place, since it seemed so in character, and so non-idealized (as did Harry's smackback). I'm sorry we didn't see more of Tonks and Remus happy together, but I'd like to think that that month or so with Teddy was a wonderful one...
Poor Teddy. Poor Andromeda. :-(
no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 07:03 am (UTC)As for Remus/Tonks--though I do prefer Remus/Sirius, do note that I did not say Remus's feelings for Sirius meant he couldn't love Tonks. I do think he loved her, but love is not a cure-all, or a guarantee of happiness, and my interpretation of their relationship, which I honestly wanted to like, is that it was not among the happiest, or the healthiest. I do hope they had some happiness with Teddy, but people with children get divorced all the time, and I really do think that might have happened, had they lived. *shrugs*